It was a rare meeting with one of the Bishops of the Global Methodist Church, Scott Jameson Jones and his wife, Mary Lou. They were on their way to the North of Nigeria for some ecclesiastical engagements and had stopped in Lagos to minister at the West Africa Theological Seminary, Ipaja, Lagos at the instance of its founder, Prof. Gary Maxey.
Just before they took off to the North, Church Times’ publisher, Gbenga Osinaike, had an exclusive chat with Bishop Jones with his wife in attendance.
By the way, Jones, an American was a former bishop of the United Methodist Church.
For those who may not know, the United Methodist Church is an offspring of the Methodist Church Worldwide. The UMC is based in the US. It was the UMC that came to evangelise some parts of the North of Nigeria while the Methodist Church in the UK came to evangelise the South of Nigeria.
So, in Nigeria, we have the UMC which came from American missionaries and the Methodist Church Nigeria which was planted by missionaries from the UK. They all came from the Methodist Church that was started by John Wesley in the 1700s in the UK.
Jones is one of the leading lights of the gospel in the Western world, fighting against the incursion of alien practices in the church. He resigned from the UMC on the grounds of his commitment to the Bible and aligned with the Global Methodist Church where he currently serves as Bishop. Many members of the UMC in Nigeria also pulled out to join the GMC owing to the unwholesome practices of the UMC in the US.
Jones was born in Nashville, Tennessee and raised in Illinois, Indiana and Colorado all in the US. He has been married to Mary Lou Reece who is President of Reece Construction Company. They have been married for 46 years. The couple has three children and five grandchildren.
Jones earned a B.A. degree in philosophy at the University of Kansas (1977 with highest honours). He earned an M.Th. degree at Perkins School of Theology, Southern Methodist University (1981 with high honors). Jones’s Ph.D. is also from Southern Methodist University, which he earned in 1992 in religious studies.
In this interview with Church Times Nigeria, Jones gives insight on several issues also explaining why GMC broke away from the UMC. Find below excerpt.
Why are you in Nigeria at this time?
Well, we are here for a couple of reasons, to celebrate with Bishop John-Wesley Yohanna who also resigned from the UMC because of the LGBTQ issue to join us in Global Methodist Church. He is now Bishop Emeritus. I am going to Jalingo to celebrate his ministry. Will also attend some ecclesiastical assignments in the Northern Nigeria Conference of the Church. I am the Bishop in charge of the operations of the Global Methodist Church in Nigeria, Ethiopia and a couple of other countries.
When you say Methodist Church, people think of the Methodist Church in Nigeria only. ?
Yes. But we also have the United Methodist Church and the Global Methodist Church which came out of the United Methodist Church. There are about 700,000 members in the North of Nigeria of Global Methodist Church. But all of them, the Methodist Church Nigeria, the United Methodist Church and the Global Methodist Church are linked to the Methodist Church which John Wesley started in 1700
Let’s talk about the story of the GMC in Nigeria.
The church can be traced to the activities of missionaries from the Evangelical United Brethren Church who came to preach the gospel and plant churches in Nigeria. They joined with the Methodist Church to form the United Methodist Church. They established four conferences which are designated areas of jurisdiction. They were doing quite well.
But with time the UMC in the US which gave birth to the one in Nigeria began to move in a liberal direction, and it became clear they were going to allow the LGBTQ community within the church. They had a lesbian bishop and a gay bishop in the US.
This is their book, the UMC’s book (raising a book) it teaches that marriage is between two consenting adults and that if you are not married you can still be sexually active.
But some of us objected to that. We said we wanted to remain part of the Methodist church with traditional teaching about holiness. So, in 2022, a group of people left the UMC including myself and formed the Global Methodist church. Many others from across the world who were not happy with the UMC’s alignment with LGBTQ joined the Global Methodist Church. We now have about 5000 congregations worldwide and we are growing rapidly.
We have GMC churches in Africa, the Philippines, Panama, and Thailand as well as all over the USA. Our church has eight bishops. Two of them are Africans. Six bishops in America. In GMC each conference has a bishop assigned to supervise it. I am the bishop in charge of Ethiopia, Kenya and Nigeria. I am the Presiding bishop of those three countries, also in the Philippines. We have superintendents in charge of the conferences. They do most of the work and report to me.
For instance, we have 80 students from the GMC in West Africa Theological Seminary. They are from the Northern Nigeria conference. I had to approve their study here because WATS wants to know if they have the recommendation of the Church.
So, what is the relationship of the Global Methodist Church with the Methodist Church in Nigeria?
We still belong to the same family. The Methodist Church Nigeria was planted by Missionaries in the UK because Nigeria was a colony of Great Britain. When there was an opportunity for English missionaries to bring the gospel to Nigeria, they evangelised the Southern part of Nigeria while American missionaries planted the United Methodist Church in the North. The Methodist Church as a whole started in the 1700s in the UK under the leadership of John Wesley. In 2007 when the Methodist Church Nigeria consecrated a new prelate and 15 bishops, I was part of the event. One of the Bishops was my student. Unfortunately, the UK Methodist church is also in favour of LGBTQ.
The issue of the Church in the West embracing gay priests is worrisome. From what you have seen what informed this theological shift of some of the Churches in the West; making them subscribe to LGBTQ?
The unfortunate reality is that Christianity is declining in my country. Many people are interested in sexual freedom and doing whatever they want to do. Within the Christian church, some people have come to believe that God created people in many different ways. They believe some people are born to be homosexual gay, some people are born to be lesbian, and some people are born with female genitalia but they are male and vice versa.
They think that God wants us to love people and recognise that God created them in many different ways. They believe we should love them as they are. These Christians have a very weak doctrine of sin.
But for those of us who object to this way of thinking, we believe people are born sinners. All of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. People who are attracted to those of the same sex are exhibiting a sinful nature. That is just their particular way of being sinners. And instead of giving in to that lifestyle, they should change and ask God to save and help them just like any other sinner will ask for help.
The gay battle has been a battle within the Methodist Church in America since 1972. Related to that there are Methodists in America who say the Bible is not exactly true. They believe if it is true, then there are some parts God did not intend to put in the Bible.
There are other Christians like me who believe the Bible is God’s word. So, the battle went on for many years between Methodists who did not believe in the authority of the Scriptures and Methodists who had a strong view of the Bible. We have been in this argument since 1972.
I am a fourth-generation Methodist preacher. My father was a major National leader of the Methodist Church from 1950 till his death in 1980. I was a professor at Southern Methodist University and was elected bishop in 2004.
Good to know you were a professor in the University. How did you meet Christ?
I was baptised. I was confirmed. But when I left home, I quit going to church. I was engaged in bad behaviour. I wanted my freedom. In America, we call it hitchhiking, when you stand by the road with your thumb up and ask somebody to pick you up. I was hitch-hiking in the State of Tennessee. A truck driver picked me up and for an hour and a half, he talked to me about Jesus. I did not remember what he said. But I did remember climbing down from the truck and saying, I want what that man has. That encounter drove me back to church. I went to Bible study with people who were very old. But I did not get much out of the Bible study. I went to the university and joined Christian student groups. They told me, if you pray a particular prayer, God will arrest you and you will be born again. I prayed the prayer, but nothing happened. I went to the university and was praying in the chapel three years later and found a sense of peace. I became a Christian by myself. I tell people, that I became born again Christian after three and half years of labour.
After that experience, I went to the seminary. Before I went to the seminary, one of my professors in the university said to me, you are a Methodist, I said, yes. I have been raised in the church and nobody had told me about the history of the church and the beliefs of the church. I got to know the story of the Methodist Church through this professor. I was in his home. He was my mentor.
I have dedicated my life to telling people how the Methodist church began and what it stands for. I have been trying to help the United Methodist Church to recover its identity. I am now part of a church that is orthodox, traditional and full of the holy spirit.
What did you study in the University apart from the seminary you went to?
I studied Philosophy. I looked at the history of Western Philosophy.
Did you have any struggle believing in the existence of God having studied Philosophy?
My struggle has always been to experience the power of the holy spirit. I think God has wired me to be intellectual but not to have the spiritual depth that others have. There is another bishop in the UMC. She is filled with the holy spirit. She is on fire for the Lord. Whenever I was around her I felt like a spiritual dwarf.
When I worship in Africa, I see that the African Christians are full of joy. They sing, they shout. I know the holy Spirit is here. So, I have struggled to experience more of God’s presence and power in my life. Thank God I now experience that grace too.
So, you never doubted the existence of God?
For those years of my studies, it was not much about doubt in the existence of God, but just about ignoring God. I had always wanted to help people. I was involved in social justice not because I believe in God that much. I was thinking of using the church as a tool of changing society. I also had read the book of Western thinkers who denied the existence of God. That was part of my study of philosophy. I tried to understand them but it was not something I was going to fall into myself.
But did the arguement for the non-existence of God make sense to you?
It did not. But I always believe you need to understand the other person’s point of view. Beginning in the 1700 people began to deny traditional Christian teaching. What I discovered in my study of philosophy was that the Bible is the most difficult issue for philosophers. Why do we believe the bible and how do we best interpret the Bible? That was what made me write a book on how Wesley interpreted the Bible. I wanted to use John Wesley to understand the Bible better.
Looking at the history of the Methodist Church from when it started and where it is now. Do you have any pain?
John Wesley said God raised the Methodist preachers to reform the nation and spread scriptural holiness across the land. God has called us to be holy. What I understand is that you can only be holy by the grace of God. It is not something you can do on your own. Talking about the ways we experience God’s grace, bible study, prayers and fellowship. John Wesley said, to be a Methodist, you have to belong to a small group of people. He called it the class meeting, where people will share their thoughts and exchange views.
I belong to such a group. We are 10 people, consisting of five couples. We meet every Monday night to help each other become holy. This was standard practice in the US in the 1700s and 1800s. In the UMC, they quit practising it. My concern is how we can provide an organisation that helps people grow in holiness.
Another concern, I am so grateful for the missionaries who brought Christianity to Africa. I am also aware that Americans and Europeans tend to think of themselves as superior to Africa. I believe God loves everybody and we need to build a community where everyone is seen as valuable and has a contribution to make to the body of Christ.
In the GMC, we are working hard to build a church where everybody is important and shares equally in its governance. How do we build a global church filled with mutual respect for each other? I think Nigerians have something to offer Americans, and Americans have something to offer Nigeria. My concern is to live in humility and servanthood for Christ. I want to help the church in Nigeria and also want the Church in Nigeria to help the Church in America.
The LGBTQ is the problem with the Church in the West, In Africa the prosperity gospel is holding sway. From your experience, how do we go around this issue of prosperity?
We must read the Bible carefully and see it as a whole. God says many things in the Bible. If you look at the whole Bible, you will see that the Lord is calling us to sacrifice not to become wealthy. God wants to bless us. But the spiritual blessing we need is salvation. So rather than becoming rich, we should learn to give our money away. It is really about how you read the whole Bible.
For example, I find John Wesley very helpful. He said there are three rules for the use of money. One, make all you can make honestly without hurting people. Two, save all you can, meaning you do not spend it on yourself and the third, give all you can. John Wesley did not teach that we should tithe. Tithing is not enough. If you have money, you should give it away as much as possible. He made a lot of money from his books, but when he died, he was poor. He gave it all away.Too many times, we want to talk about God’s blessings in a way that it is all about us. This should not be the case.
The prosperity gospel is really a selfish gospel. We should remember that we are called to imitate Christ who gave himself for our sins. He died for the world.
Don’t you think GMC is also greatly being influenced by the prosperity gospel?
I do not know yet. I know what our official teaching is. But I do not know what they practice in Nigeria. We should pay attention as leaders to changes in technology. In 1400 the press was invented and all of a sudden, the Bible could be printed. Then Newspaper became cheap. Now we have the internet. People who are poor can look on the internet and see all these things that rich people have. So, the dissatisfaction with their lives becomes stronger. People can say anything on the internet. They have turned the gospel to what will make them happy. But we have to be faithful to the gospel.
What will be your final word for the Church in Nigeria?
I will tell them to love Jesus, preach the gospel and lead the people to faithful service to the Lord.
