Pastor Tolu Makinde was born in Ibadan, Oyo State, Nigeria, and grew up there before relocating to the United Kingdom at 13. From the UK he moved to the US at 17. He studied Computer Science for his first degree and Business Management at the postgraduate level. He has put in over 20 years as a high-impact executive and program leader with a proven background spanning multiple industries in program and project management.
He combines his highly demanding schedules with pastoring the House of Prayer parish of the Redeemed Christian Church of God in Atlanta, US, which clocked 10 recently.
Despite living almost all his life in the UK and the US, Makinde still connects well with his roots; he is still down-to-earth and a lover of God. In this interview with Church Times, he shares his experience pastoring in the US.
What informed your decision to travel to the UK?
I had an elder sister who relocated to the United Kingdom in the mid-80s. She was about ten years older than me, and since I was interested in studying there, my parents allowed me to go with her. I’ve spent more time abroad than in Nigeria, but I can never forget where I come from.
Did living abroad at any time make you live a wayward life going by the stories we hear?
I was 13 before leaving Nigeria and was well-trained at home. My father was strict with our upbringing. From a young age, I understood boundaries and what I could and could not do. I think many people run into issues because they never had values to begin with; the values were not passed on to them. So, when they enter a new environment without having those values to ground them, they just go with whatever they find there, which often leads to trouble.
What kind of background did you have while growing up?
Let me state that my dad had a five-headed koboko (horsewhip) that he used to discipline us whenever we stepped out of line. But when I turned twelve, my father told me, “I am not going to lay hands on you again; we will be talking from henceforth.” But as time went on, I realized that I preferred the koboko.
How then did you encounter Jesus?
In my early years, my mother was a Cherubim and Seraphim (C&S) member, she would take us to church, often forcefully. Church services were long, and as a young child, I would be hungry by 2:00 pm, and church would still not be over. That was my first experience with Jesus. Before I left Nigeria, we joined Christ Apostolic Church (CAC) in Ibadan because my uncle was a CAC pastor, and my father also joined and became a pastor after I had left Nigeria. In the UK, we continued attending a CAC church, and when we relocated to the US, we found a CAC church in Los Angeles. I grew up there and played the drums.
I always knew there was a God, and the first time I prayed earnestly was when it had to do with my school grades in Primary Five. I heard a man of God on the radio mention that if you wake up by 3 am to pray, there are angels who would carry your prayers directly to God, and I believed it. I prayed to get the first position; this was around 1985. My father was pleased and promised to take me to London, which he did, and we had a great time. That was my first experience of God answering prayer, but I still did not truly know God until I was led to salvation in CAC. Still, there was no conviction, and when I went abroad, I was still one leg in church and another in the world.
I remained like that until I finished schooling and got married. One of my friends got born again and stopped doing all the things we used to do, and we would make fun of him. He would laugh because we were all ignorant. He invited us to his church, Peace Apostolic Church in California. I can’t even remember the message preached, but when the altar call was made, I didn’t know how it happened, I was sitting at the back, but I found myself at the front.
The way they did it in that church, after the altar call, you would get baptized and pray in tongues on the same day. After that altar call, I had an encounter with Jesus; I was speaking in tongues, and He was speaking English back to me. I could not see His face but could see His neck down, and I knew in my spirit it was Jesus. Since then, my life changed completely, and all the things I used to do, I do them no more.
How was it growing up in faith and how did you become a pastor?
We started attending a church close to us, Lake View Terrace Baptist Church, where our third child was dedicated. We went to church and had Bible study, but I felt something was missing, and I wanted more. A friend who was a member of Mountain of Fire Ministry (MFM) invited me to the church, and we were praying in typical MFM style. After the prayer, the pastor, Pastor Ade, said he saw a pastor in me. He called me several times to discuss the possibility of becoming one, but I was not interested in being a pastor.
Eventually, we relocated to a city called Lancaster in California, about an hour’s drive from the former church. One day, my wife went to a store and was directed to an African store where she could get things, and there she met one ‘Iya Ibeji’, who invited her to a baby shower hosted by Jesus Assembly, a parish of Redeemed Christian Church of God (RCCG). She went and came back very excited.
There was another baby shower, and my wife suggested I go, but I did not. She kept mentioning that the pastor wanted to meet me, Pastor Dami Suleodu, but I rejected the invitation. Then she suggested inviting him over. When he came, we started talking, and it felt like we had known each other for years. I told him that I was going to come around for the next church meeting.
The church was still meeting in a hotel, and since it was new, they weren’t able to set up the sound properly. After the service, I spoke with the pastor about the sound issues, and with the little experience I had, I adjusted the mixer, and the sound improved. I told them I was not an audio person but just knew it needed adjustment. I don’t know how I said, ‘Okay from time to time, I would come to help adjust the sound and that was how I was tied down in RCCG. from then on, I began helping with the sound.
Later, they asked if I could teach Sunday school and they gave me material to teach. After the teaching, they came to meet me and said I taught so well. Later, a sister in the church went to the headquarters and told them how well I taught. Pastor Niran Fafowora from the headquarters called me, saying they wanted to start a church in Santa Clarita and wanted me to pray about it. I ran away initially, I ran away again, and then in January 2008, there was a meeting of RCCG workers in a hotel. As we were praying, I heard, ‘Go I will be with you’ I looked around but no one was talking to me. I closed my eyes to pray and I heard it again. I told Pastor Fafowora and he said that was the confirmation needed. That is how I started as a pastor at an RCCG Parish called Jesus Chapel.
But you still kept your IT job. How were you able to do that?
It has been by grace. My job at a company called Medtronic involved mostly Monday to Friday work and did not include weekends and evenings. I was dedicated to both my church and my work.
What has been your experience sharing your faith in the workplace?
Some of my co-workers were believers, and we would have Bible study during lunch once a week. Because of the professional setting, you can’t go around preaching like in Nigeria. But there are other means to do so. For instance, when there was a market crash in 2009 and people were losing their homes, this affected us also, a friend at work asked me how I could stay so relaxed despite what was going on.
That gave me the opportunity to share the gospel and tell him that Jesus is the reason I am still at peace. Another time, a colleague lost someone close to him and he was down. I pulled him into a conference room to pray with him. After praying, he hugged me, and I knew the prayer comforted him. These are platforms that I used to share the gospel.
Do you agree that the West is experiencing a post-Christian era?
Some of our churches have failed to pass on what is needed, and many generations are slowly walking away from God. Here, most people are comfortable and do not see the need to rely on God. But when tragedy happens, like 9/11, people flock to the church. Recently, a kid in a school about 30 minutes away from us took a gun to school and shot four people and wounded about nine. I watched the news footage, and some people were gathered, praying, even though these same people do not want prayer or the Bible in schools. When tragedy strikes, most people remember God. Unless you are grounded and know your source of comfort is God, you will not see the need to worship Him.
What do you think should inform a preacher’s message?
The community will decide the kind of message to pass across depending on whether they are affluent or not. We need to focus on what Jesus preached, repentance, deliverance, and healing. For those in need, we can also preach that Jesus supplies. But the key is making Jesus the center of everything and aligning with the environment you are in. The Holy Spirit is also needed to teach us what to preach to the people, that will speak to their circumstances.
What are the lessons you’ve learned in your 16 years of pastoring?
The major lesson would be that you can’t do without God and prayer. In the ups, you praise God, and in the downs, you still praise God. God dealt with me in California, where I stayed for four and a half years. It was tough, and I had to ask God if I was doing the right thing amid the attacks. I even wanted to walk away, but God used a man of God to dissolve the stress. I called him and narrated myself and he gave me a scripture. He gave me a scripture in Yoruba which translates, ‘I send you forth as sheep amongst wolves’. Immediately we prayed on the scripture. I felt like the weight and bondage was removed. This is why I tell people that if God did not call you, don’t go, because when attacks come, who will you run to?
Around 2012, everyone in my house was having dreams about Atlanta, and even my daughter, who was not yet ten, had dreams. My friend, a prophet by calling, and I were praying, and he said it seemed like God wanted me to relocate, mentioning that it seemed to be the East Coast. I told him about the Atlanta dream, and he said that was what he initially heard. I prayed and received that we relocate also, and the Lord told me He would take care of the church by bringing in a new pastor. I asked about my job, but the Lord did not say much.
Then, about a month or so later, I was called to my boss’s office at work, where they told me that they made some structuring and eliminated my position. I laughed because I knew God planned to ensure I relocated. What they gave me as a severance package was almost five months’ worth of pay when it should have only been two weeks. It covered our expenses for relocation, and we relocated to Georgia.
The Lord told me to take a break for about two years, and between 2013 and 2014, we went to a church called Christ-Centered International Chapel, pastored by Pastor Mike Ademisoye. I assisted him and told him it was temporary until God called me away. I also helped with sound. Fast forward to about July 2014, I heard it was time, and I told the Pastor that I thought God wanted us to start a parish.
While praying, I told God I wanted it to be within a 30-minute radius of the house because of past experiences with distance. We prayed for direction. One day, God asked me to check a place in Craigslist, and a church wanted to rent the space. The church allowed us to use their facility in the afternoon while they used it in the morning, and that was how the ‘House of Prayer’ started on September 21st, 2014, a week away from our anniversary.
When we started, the Lord told us that we shouldn’t do anniversaries, rather, we should have a prayer meeting on the day, and we held on and used our anniversary as a prayer conference. We hold it from Thursday to Sunday. Thursday and Friday are dedicated to prayer, and Saturday is dedicated to praise. Most of the time, on Thursday night, we invite a minister who ministers in prayer. Friday, we can go from morning till afternoon praying, and on Saturdays around 3 or 4 pm, we invite choirs of parishes in the area to minister in praise, and Sunday is the grand finale and thanksgiving. That was what was done this year the difference is that we started the prayers on Wednesday this time around.
Why so much emphasis on prayer?
If you listen to our father in the Lord, Pastor Enoch Adeboye, he would always say that prayer moves the hand that moves everything, and without prayer, nothing would move. If we don’t pray, we are not permitting God to work on our behalf. To pray effectively, we must learn the principles that govern prayer, and this is why we need to learn about prayer. Over the years, I realized that everything we lay our hands on requires prayer to stand, and we need to invoke God in what we do—it all comes by prayer. Whatever you need to do with God comes by prayer.
Some people do not pray, yet they get all that Christians are praying for. For instance, a pastor once said we don’t need God to succeed. How will you react to this?
God has given us different gifts; you may not need God to express your gift, but to do it God’s way, you need to pray. There is no way you can succeed without involving God, especially if you want to do it His way. The definition of success is also important, for instance, Joseph was called prosperous while in prison. God saw him as successful not based on Joseph’s material wealth but based on the wealth of relationship he had with God.
How has your wife been involved in the ministry?
Let me start by saying that if she were not involved, there is no way I would have been able to do much in ministry. We have been in it together since day one; she has been there by my side, providing all the support. There are times when things get tough and she would be the one to put her arm around my shoulder and tell me it will be alright. She is Nigerian but grew up in the US like me.
You have spent 10 years as pastor in your present parish. What testimony would you like to share?
I mentioned that we started by subleasing from another church and had our meetings in the afternoon. We moved and were able to find another place, which was a testimony because getting a location to have a church here can be difficult because of the zoning laws and various permissions that needed to be sought. The first location we were able to get was zoned as retail, and we were not supposed to put a church in a retail space.
Nevertheless, we applied for permission, and the landlord and our realtor at the time ensured that all the paperwork was there. During the processing, certain rumors were spreading that we were Muslims, and the city always thinks of terrorists sometimes when they hear “Muslims”. I met with the landlord, who told me about the rumours, and I told him that we are followers of Jesus to the core. He spoke to the city manager, and we were able to get permission for us to use the church for a year since it was retail. But after the year lapsed, we were able to get permission to use the land for another year.
There was a time when the space we stayed in became too small for our children. My third daughter, who was seven at the time, came to me and told me there were too many in her class and that I should do something about it. We began looking for another space, and we got one and offered them a sufficient amount, which they refused.
One of our members then reminded me of when I mentioned that the next space we would go after this place would be our own, but I told him that what was in the account was not even sufficient for a down payment. I mustered up the boldness and said we should start looking for a space we could buy.
One of our ministers, a realtor, was given the assignment, but we could not find a location as they had issues one way or the other. But as God would have it, we acquired the property in the middle of COVID-19, a time when people were not coming to church. But we just had the confidence that this was supposed to be ours and God was with us all the way. Today we own our property which to me is great news.