Sunday Adelaja is the founder and Senior Pastor of the Embassy of the Blessed Kingdom of God for All Nations, in Kyiv, Ukraine. A Nigerian by birth, Adelaja was a phenomenon in Ukraine as a result of his social crusade and the great impact of his church in the country.
A couple of years ago, he began a series of online scrutiny of the teachings of popular Nigerian pastors and as a result, was not in the good books of these pastors.
It was amid this online crusade that war broke out in Ukraine which made him exit the country in an emergency. The war is yet to abate, and lives are still being lost.
But Adelaja who now lives in Belgium sees God’s hand in all all that is happening. He shares his thoughts on the war and a wide range of issues on the Church in this exclusive chat with Church Times
How has it been with you since you moved out of Ukraine when the war started?
After the war broke out, I left Ukraine. I am now settled down in Western Europe, specifically in Belgium. From Belgium, I travel to the rest of Europe and the rest of the world doing ministry.
There were many branches of the Embassy of God Church that you founded in Ukraine. Did the war destroy those branches, or do you still have some of them?
We still have about 200 branches of our ministry left in Ukraine despite the war. People are still there worshipping in those branches. But the big congregations are no longer there. Apart from those in Ukraine, many of those who left Ukraine are scattered all over the world and still doing ministry. It’s like what happened to the Apostles in Jerusalem. When there was persecution, they were scattered all over the world. The persecution did not mark the end of the church. Rather, it was the beginning of the church. So, what has happened to us in the Embassy of God is the wisdom of God at work.
For you to still have 200 branches left in Ukraine is a plus. But what is the extent of damage the war caused your ministry?
It is difficult to calculate. Apart from losing churches about 50 percent of our members are scattered in about 50 countries. But I don’t see it as negative. Maybe it is in the negative now, but in the future, I believe God will turn it for good because of the lives that will be impacted. We are limited by what we see. But God sees into hundreds of years ahead. I see what is happening as the strategic move of God.
As regards the extent of damage, I don’t want to mention our investment in Europe. But the truth is that 40 years of investment in Europe is gone talking about material things. I was telling people the other time about the cost of my house and people thought I was talking about money. But that is not what I was talking about. I was just using it as an illustration. People don’t know the investment we have in Europe is more than ten times what I mentioned. When bombs are falling, they don’t choose where to fall. But the good thing for me is that I do not see what has happened to me as a loss.
We have already been taught by Jesus that we should not put our hearts in earthly treasure. Jesus admonished us to put our treasure where our heart is. Our treasure should be in the kingdom of God where thieves will not enter. So, what has happened to me is something that makes me rejoice. When I see the physical losses, I rejoice because I am not the kind of pastor who puts my faith in material things.
I got saved in Deeper Life Bible Church; I learnt modesty from them even though I was just a believer for about six months in Nigeria before I traveled out of the country. That ability was developed within me to live under any circumstances.
I used to imagine myself losing all the material things I had acquired and seeing myself not being affected by the loss. God taught me to imagine I don’t have members and I don’t have church. All the things around me are not what defines me. It would have been tragic if material things had been my identity.
Church members, property, and wealth were never my identity. My identity is who I am and what God has been able to build in me. When we lost everything, I discovered that I could still live my life without those things. We never for once say why did this happen because we know that all things work out for good to those who love the Lord. We don’t see what has happened to us as a loss. In the natural, some see it as a loss. But we are in Christ. We do not see it as a loss.
You lost members of your church in the war. How have you been taking this?
That is a greater loss. A lot of people died and are still dying. This is where I disagree with the people making decisions in Ukraine. I will give everything out to preserve the lives of the people. The lives of people are more precious. Right now, in Ukraine, those who think like me are in the minority. Those who say we should concede land to the enemy are not welcome at all.
What is the situation with the war now?
It’s getting worse daily. But now America has allowed Ukraine to eat deep into Russia. Russia is now beginning to talk about nuclear weapons. Things are getting worse every day. It has been intense as it has been from day one. Only that media likes sensation. They are no longer reporting it because it is no longer news as it were. If you have been hearing something over and over again, people get tired of it.
People are insinuating that the victory of Trump will mean the eventual loss of Ukraine in the war because it is believed that Trump is a friend of Russia. What do you think?
Trump has said he would work towards ending the war. But some people are afraid that he might want to stop the war at the expense of Ukraine. Some are however looking at the possibility of Ukraine working with some leaders in Europe to work with Trump so that Ukraine will not lose. The body language of Trump says he might be sympathetic towards Russia. But the reality on the ground is that Russia is the aggressor and that public opinion will not allow Trump to take sides with Russia.
Let’s talk about your ministry vis-à-vis your relationship with some Nigerian pastors that you don’t seem to like their theology. Do you still maintain the same position or do you think there are changes?
It’s not me who will change my position now. But I am glad that things are changing at least on the part of some of the leaders. For example, Pastor Enoch Adeboye of the Redeemed Christian Church of God, did apologise for saying people who don’t pay tithe would go to hell. If you check the records, I was the first person who raised the issue when he preached the message.
I did not just talk about it, I got the video and talked about it criticising it. When I was talking about it, about 90 percent of the church came after me and said if Baba said that no tithe no heaven, God must have spoken to him. They were saying who was I to criticize Pastor Adeboye?
Nigerian Christians have been taught to believe more in the authority of men than in the authority of truth. In Nigeria, if there is a debate between truth and man. Christians will line up behind authoritative men and reject the truth. This is what I wanted to prove to the Nigerian Christians that we must always elevate the authority of truth more than the authority of man. Truth should be the ultimate authority in our decision-making.
Ironically, I am the one that has something to lose not all those members who are defending these people because I know them personally. I knew Pastor Adeboye personally. You will see my picture with him online. I preached at the RCCG camp about five times. I know Bishop Oyedepo personally. He has hosted me in his house and his church. They are people who respected me before I began to pick holes in their theology. All of them were referring to me as an example of what Africans can do in the diaspora. But I decided to risk all that reputation and to lose my name with them just for the sake of the truth. The fact that Pastor Adeboye was saying he would kill anybody who touched his wife was something I could not comprehend. How could that have happened?
He also apologized for that too?
Yes, he did. Which means the truth is coming home gradually.
But I also think that between those eras when you were raising dust online and now, the worst messages have been preached still on the tithe issue. For example, Bishop Oyedepo preached that Job had a problem because he did not pay tithe. It seems to me nothing is being learned despite your criticisms.
The good thing is that some members of these churches with pastors who have weird theology are changing. Their eyes are opening. Many are beginning to think. Before I came out to challenge some of their messages, people used to say, touch not my anointed, that if you do, you will die. But I challenged them and was ready for the consequences.
Today as a result of the crusade more than 200 people are on the internet every day criticizing and exposing the wrong things going on in the church. Even now, I am silent. It is people that have been influenced that are doing the job.
But has the criticism made people love God more? It seems that people are just criticizing and not necessarily living a life committed to Christ. Don’t you think that is the trend?
With some people, it might be so. But I think the ability to think is the greatest freedom a man can have. When people begin to think change is imminent. If you are not giving people the freedom to think, they will be slaves to men. If you can set their mind free, they will be free to believe. Some people we used to think were believers were believers out of fear. But God will not appreciate that. He will want us to believe out of love and knowledge of him. I remember those days when people used to think dressing in a particular way made you a Christian. But we have since discovered that is not true. The freedom not to be subservient will lead people to know God in the true sense. I know people are freer now to have a personal relationship with Christ.
The Bible talks about love. It seems to me that you are no longer on talking terms with some of these pastors who were your friends before. Where is love in your relationship with them? Do you still call them up and interact with them despite the differences? On their part, did they call you after the war to commiserate with you? Do you still have links with these pastors?
There are no links for now. And I can understand. But they might be thinking that I am motivated by anger or hatred to do what I am doing or did in terms of addressing their faulty theology. But God knows I don’t have any disregard or hatred towards them. But because our tradition in Africa says if you have criticised anybody, it means you don’t love them.
Rather, it is the opposite in Christianity. When Paul criticized Peter, it did not mean he did not love Peter. He loved him. When Jesus criticized the Pharisees, it did not mean he did not love them. Criticism does not mean there is no love. It is an expression of love. Because you criticize those people you care about. I can say I love those people now more than I used to love them. I love the Lord first and I love them because I tell them the truth.
Maybe there is no relationship due to the perception that has been created. That however does not mean there is no love. If I see them, I will extend the arms of fellowship with them.
But have you had cause to call them up one day and say for instance, “Bishop Oyedepo how are you” Have you done that?
I wrote letters to them but I did not get a reply. That was before the war.
And they did not call you after the war to commiserate with you?
No. Rather I heard people saying, the war is God’s way of dealing with me.
But then did the thought that God may be dealing with you occur to you when the war began?
No. No. I never believed in that. Based on my knowledge of God, I know that is just a joke. When I heard people making such insinuations, I would just laugh. God is not like that.
There were prophecies that you should leave Ukraine before the war. Didn’t it occur to you that you were living in disobedience?
God knows the reason I was not leaving before then. I think the war was a blessing in disguise for me. Other factors were making me remain in Ukraine. God knows.
I know you have been to Ghana since the war broke out in Ukraine and you have been to a couple of other countries. But you have not stepped foot in Nigeria. Is this deliberate on your part?
Yes. It is deliberate. I don’t want to come to Nigeria because just like God told Joseph and Mary not to see Herod but to take Jesus to Egypt is the same way I have this conviction that it is not time to come to Nigeria.
In Nigeria, even if the fathers don’t plan any harm some foot soldiers may be overzealous in trying to defend their fathers. I don’t want to come to Nigeria yet until I feel the conviction in my spirit to come. In fact, I just came back from Congo. I have been to a couple of other countries. God’s time for me to come to Nigeria is coming and I will do so as soon as I am clear in my spirit about coming.
One would have thought that the loss of your in-law would be a good opportunity for you to come to Nigeria for the burial and connect with old friends.
That is natural. If you want to be led by spirit, you won’t follow those sentimental things. If you are led by the spirit, you will rather obey the leading of the spirit. The point I am making is that I don’t still have the conviction to come to Nigeria for now.
Perhaps your fear is similar to that of Pastor Sam Adeyemi who fled Nigeria because of some perceived harm that could be done to him?
In his case, he was having conflict with the government. But that is not the case with mine.
But some may begin to see men of God as being unduly afraid?.
That is not the case with me. If I had been afraid, I would not have been as critical as I was of some strange teachings. But it is about obedience to God’s direction.
I am sure you have been following Dr Abel Damina who has become the rave of the moment attacking some teachings in the church. How would you rate his teachings?
Let me first commend him that God is using him to take up the body of Christ on some of these strange doctrines. We need a man like him to call the church to order even though I would not support some of the things he is criticizing. I think he is just creating sensationalism. Why should he be talking about Jesus not being born by Mary or some of the things the church holds sacred? He talks about too many things that are not necessary. There are things he talks about that make him look like a blogger looking for clout. He has done well in the area of calling people’s attention to the evil of transactional gospel. But his position on some of the fundamental doctrines of faith is weird.
Have you had any contact with him at least to share notes?
The last time I had interaction with him was 10 years ago when he was still preaching the materialistic gospel.
He said he read Andrew Wommack and that it was his message that changed his theology. Have you read Wommack? What is your impression?
Wommack is much more balanced than all the Word of Faith Movement. But if you analyse Wommack’s theology, he is not regarded as a balanced gospel to the end. He is much better than where Damina was before he repented. Comparing where he was with Wommack is like light and darkness. But Wommack himself is being criticized as someone who is not completely in the true gospel.
Also read: Sunday Adelaja: The story of my life and the war in Ukraine: https://churchtimesnigeria.net/sunday-adelaja-ukraine-war/#google_vignette
But Damina said he picked his theology from him.
Wommack does not preach sensationalism. He does not deny the basic theology of Christianity. What Damina was saying was that it was Wommack that helped him realise that Christianity is all about Jesus. But then you can’t be talking about that every day. I think Damina just had a zeal to keep on talking about all kinds of things. He kept on doing research and came up with something new. He always wants to contradict what other people believe in. There was a time I was close to Daddy Freeze, and he too fell into that fallacy. But I think he has cooled down now. But Abel Damina has taken criticism to another level.
But then where could Damina have gotten his theology from?
Those sensational things are from his end. They are things he needed to twist to get attention.
There are new pastors in Nigeria like Joshua Selman, Osayi Arome, and Michael Orokpo? What is your reading of these new folks?
I think many of them are just trying to find a niche for themselves. I don’t see how they are better than the old brigade. They are looking for followership. Orokpe and Arome were once fighting one another. Selman is a combination of many things. I think what is happening is a fight for relevance.
Given all the versions of criticism, it seems there is no center-point so to speak. What is your message for the Nigerian church?
I think the Nigerian church should go back to a personal relationship with Jesus.
Some people are doing that at the personal level. What about the collective?
I think pastors and leaders should begin to realise and make people know that the church is not about them. The kind of churches we have are such that give attention to the leaders. Pastors should begin to demphasise their person and make people find a relationship with Christ and downplay membership. There are good pastors I know that are on the right path. I know Bishop Abraham Olaleye for instance because I have worked with him and a few others who are rightly dividing the Word. There are many more that may not be known. But as I said, pastors should de-emphasize themselves in their relationship with the people under their care.
But there are a lot of pastors in some orthodox churches that are doing well too.
The problem is that some of the orthodox pastors are practicing what the Pentecostals are doing. I used to be an Anglican. Now, I listen to some Anglican pastors and I discovered they are doing what the Pentecostals are doing. The Catholicism we see in Europe is different from what we see in Nigeria. Pentecostalism has infiltrated the church in Nigeria. The Nigerian church has to hit the rock bottom of failure, and disillusionment and then begin to question ourselves and go back to God for a personal relationship with Him.
What is the situation with your ministry now? Do you have a congregation you pastor in Belgium?
We have a congregation in Belgium but I don’t pastor in Belgium. But we still connect with the branches in Ukraine online even with the war going on. We also reach out to the world as stated earlier
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